Greg Boser Dispatches The Black Helicopters

Greg Boser – the evil SEO that has done what he was contracted to do is suspected of committing a horrible act, HIS JOB.

As posted in forums and blogs all over the real estate space and even on Matt Cutt’s blog, real estate website owners are very upset that Google has penalized sites employing tactics that go against the stated Google guidelines.

Ok, first of all it sucks to have a website de-listed or penalized in any way. BUT – whining and crying, complaining and blaming and divining the “reason” is stupid, especially when you admit your site was spammy.

All you have to do is READ and BE HONEST with yourself.

So what happened? As detailed by Marc Rasmussen and Ryan Ward (data from Ward) in the REW (real estate webmasters) forum, his site was penalized by google. Mark suspects that Greg Boser AKA Web Guerilla has “something do to with it” and has posted not only in the real estate forums, but his REW blog, active rain blog and Matt Cutts blog that it’s highly suspicious that Greg Boser, seo power-house had visited his site before, the same day as and after his site was penalized.

SO WHAT!

Some REW sites were hit, as MANY real estate sites for apparently employing methods that are recommended by google and Matt Cutts to be a bad idea.

So, reading through all these posts and forum threads, you would think that Greg is evil, that he may have had a back-door way of hitting a site or even secretly “works for Google”, that he was unethical. No, he did his job!

Greg was contracted to help Advanced Access ( or AA ) resurrect their library of real estate sites and in the process he filed re-inclusion requests with Google. During this process he also noticed that the sites he was working with were under a penalty of sort similar or just like other real estate websites. So, yes he must have wondered why SOME sites get hurt and not others. Was he throwing some people under the bus? IT DOESN’T MATTER.

Marc may think his site would be in good standing today if Greg didn’t notice his site or the link building methods used. But that doesn’t matter either.

C’mon – Google says:

“Avoid link popularity schemes”

That’s just one of MANY quotes from google and Matt, there are DOZENS of similarly written sentences that say the same thing.

Ok realtors – I know you “refer” customers in your real life job, but that’s for MONEY. Listing 100’s of real estate sites on your website is not the same thing.

By setting up a page with 50 links all liked to pages that list links to other realtors is NOT a referral network. It a technique to boost link popularity and you KNEW THAT.

Did you NOT THINK that these pages would go unnoticed? Did you really think that a realtor in Dallas saying “oh, by the way if you want to buy a home in Oregon, go here” is REALLY helpful to a visitor?

Looking for a loophole by saying that google encourages link building is nonsense. You all knew, though it worked for a long time, that this method of link building was PURELY for search engines to increase link poplularity – also recommended against by google when you read “build pages for users, not the search engines.”

Greg – I feel you served your client. You didn’t intend to hurt anyone. The real estate sites that are now under a penalty are NOT the result of you ratting anyone out, but the result of site owners trying to slide by on what worked for a while.

Though the REW clients that are suffering may be steaming and wanting to accuse Web Guerilla of being behind the mass de-indexing of sites, I can say to Greg – good job – you served YOUR client well. (though is sucks for REW)

Now, REW run by Morgan Carey is a GREAT place to learn about SEO and real estate websites. This incident MAY have given them a black eye – but they don’t deserve it. Personally, I watch one of REW’s clients weekly as a gauge of my local real estate space and his site performs INCREDIBLY WELL.

As SEO evolved, REW did also. They’ve changed their ways just as they should, and their blogging system is great. Their forum has stated for a long time that a directory of recips is bad. Nobody got upset until their own properties were affected.

I feel bad for these guy, honestly. Yes, they are Mom and Pops, not large corps. or pro seo’s.

REW’s admin is smart and built in ADVANCE a system to help their users – and though that system may not have been used by all their members it does NOT MEAN that REW failed them. The members ALL KNOW what the google guidelines said. And, they ALL honestly understood the link strategy that many of them used.

Though REW may have a black eye – they really are a great source for seo info and a great co. – I believe they had their client’s interest in mind and built a system for them to achieve their goals. Creating new content and adding features that help is meaningless if they didn’t remove what hurt.

Greg Boser got a black eye too – Headlines in forums and blog posts with his name in it accusing HIM of “having something to do with” the sites getting penalized is not fair or intellectually honest.

The Realtors got more than a black eye – they have an income generator lost in cyberspace for a while. THAT SUCKS – but is is NOT Greg Boser’s fault, not REW’s fault or even your own. It’s what happens. Your sites were above the radar because of your efforts. Then, you became complacent. Marc, you even say that in you post, then Google got you.

Your directory of links is gone now, and hopefully your site will be resurrected. You and other REW members have learned some things and will most likely stay on top of it this time.

SO WHAT if Greg was on your site. Blaming him does nothing but show people that YOU HONESTLY believed your site wasn’t spammy (enough) while simultaneously mentioning Google rules that tell you that it was.

Marc, I do feel for you and am sorry this has happened, but when you are again above the radar, stay on top of the info as well as the serps.

49 Responses to “Greg Boser Dispatches The Black Helicopters”

  1. Marc Rasmussen June 27, 2007 at 3:57 am #

    Nice post. A few comments:

    “BUT – whining and crying, complaining and blaming and divining the “reason” is stupid, especially when you admit your site was spammy.”

    All of my posts have been lucid, factual and non flaming. I am simply having a discussion.

    Just a small note but you have some details wrong. I don’t have any data showing Boser came to my site. Ryan Ward does. My analytics was down at the time.

    “So, reading through all these posts and forum threads, you would think that Greg is evil, that he may have had a back-door way of hitting a site or even secretly “works for Google”, that he was unethical. No, he did his job!”

    I don’t ever remember saying that Boser was unethical.

    “The real estate sites that are now under a penalty are NOT the result of you ratting anyone out,”

    Do you really believe that? I never denied having state pages and reciprocal links. Just like thousands of other real estate websites. Some of them have cleaned up their act but most of them have not. And, they are unpenalized. What is the difference? Boser did not file spam reports on those websites.

    “I can say to Greg – good job – you served YOUR client well. (though is sucks for REW)”

    So Greg was required to turn in other websites to get his job done at Advanced Access? I don’t think anyone can really answer that question other than Google.

    “Greg Boser got a black eye too – Headlines in forums and blog posts with his name in it accusing HIM of “having something to do with” the sites getting penalized is not fair or intellectually honest.”

    Not fair? How is that not fair or intellectually honest? It was a simple question of whether he was involved in the penalizing of several sites. That simple. He all but admitted to in his statements on REW, “I have never denied the fact that during my time as a consultant for AA that I gave both Yahoo and Google examples of other companies engaging in the same kind of behavior that got AA penalized.”

    “SO WHAT if Greg was on your site. Blaming him does nothing but show people that YOU HONESTLY believed your site wasn’t spammy”

    How do you come up with that conclusion? I have already admitted to having state pages and reciprocal linking. Which most were built by the REW link team. I just did not need Greg firing a flare in the direction of the Google spam team.

  2. Knox June 27, 2007 at 4:12 am #

    Correction with a name acknowledged concerning your name misplaced with Ryan Ward.

    You have a habit of quoting avery sentence then asking a question and it goes round and round and…

    So instead, I’ll just say you are right. The sites weren’t spammy and they unjustly received penalties becasue Greg Boser “ratted” you out.

    Happy?

    Marc – I refer to several threads and posts, and expect (respect) the readers to see that not ALL comments are from you but of the authors posted with comments – less the correction noted.

    I’m not fighting with you, especially here – the sites DID (in my opinion) employ spammy techniques. With Greg pointing it out to Google in any way does not make him “responsible” for the penalties.

    Your argument is NOT about “why was my site unfairly penalized” but “why did Boser need to point out my spammy site?” (quotes mine) – that’s what this post is about and why your argument is lost.

  3. Marc Rasmussen June 27, 2007 at 4:19 am #

    “I’m not fighting with you”

    I am not fighting with you.

    “the sites DID (in my opinion) employ spammy techniques.”

    I agree. The same method as thousands of other real estate sites.

    “With Greg pointing it out to Google in any way does not make him “responsible” for the penalties.”

    Was he the catalyst that started the process by submitting spam reports?

    “that’s what this post is about and why your argument is lost.”

    Pretty bold of you to come to that conclusion so fast isn’t it?

  4. Knox June 27, 2007 at 4:22 am #

    Bottom line is that Greg didn’t penailze your site, Google did. The REW team is great, I suggest them to realtors all the time. Was is “cool” for greg to do that? No, but seo isn’t about being nice, it’s about results. Boser had a job to do – and he made his choices on how to handle it. Regardless, I am not picking a fight WITH YOU but the mantality of blaming others. I know you “admit” to the link method – I think you became unaware of what I called “the buzz” and were happy at the top while becoming complacent. It DOES SUCK – I HONESTLY feel bad for you.

    Bold? Not at all – I own my conclusions, this is my home and I don’t have a penalized site.

  5. Marc Rasmussen June 27, 2007 at 4:27 am #

    I appreciate the fact that you feel bad for me.

    I really did not become complacent I was just selling houses. That is how I feed my family, not staying on top of the SEO world. After Greg submitting a spam report thus being the catalyst for my Google penalty I became aware of what was going on around here.

  6. Knox June 27, 2007 at 4:35 am #

    Hence my saying “it all sucks”

    I hope all gets remedied for you. I have family in real estate as well and understand how this would affect your life.

  7. chatham NJ Real Estate June 27, 2007 at 9:54 am #

    I was not caught up in all of this mess thankfully, though I could have been, I did not have my website up yet when all of this was going down. As recently as early March I was at Keller Williams Realtors Tech conference where Reciprocal linking was being talked about in very positive ways by many of the guests, and instructor. I could easily have put up 60 or 70 reciprocal links just from going to that conference.

    Before the thread started about Advanced Access and their spammy linking problems I had never heard of Matt Cutts and had no idea that reciprocal linking was bad, the only understanding I had was that it was less effective than one way links.

    I feel strongly that if Google wanted to put a shot across the the Realtors to let them know that this is bad, they should have first posted it on Matt Cutts Blog, had him publicly say, Such is coming, Sent a e-mail out to each of the major website developers that Google knows about, and when selecting websites by hand, send each of the owners a e-mail explaining what they are doing and why. Don’t just impose a penalty and leave the person sitting their wondering what happened, as so many were left wondering.

    When penalties are handed out in any other industry notice, reason, and timeframes are always given. It is the professional thing to do.

    Sorry if I came off negative, just my opinion.

    James Boyer
    Keller Williams Realtors
    Summit, NJ 07901

  8. Knox June 27, 2007 at 11:32 pm #

    Hey James,

    See you at the other forum.
    Instead of double hashing it, I’ve added my comments to the thread at REW and will just go there now for the conversation:

    http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/thread16532.html

  9. chatham NJ Real Estate June 28, 2007 at 8:41 am #

    Thanks for the update, Checked it out there, but as of this post I am not going to comment on that post anymore, what is done is done.

    I think what Greg Boser has done is said he is going to hurt anyone who gets in the way of his clients, so everyone should be aware of that, and when dealing with him, they should act accordingly.

    Not trying to be mean, and since I have not been impacted by what he has done or not done, I guess I consider myself a non biased witness. The old saying of you get what you give will likely come back to haunt Greg Boser!

  10. Bob June 28, 2007 at 10:45 am #

    James, its a search engine. Hitch your business to their horse for a free ride and you don’t get to demand that they do business the way you want them to.

    Want a guarantee? Write a check. Go ppc.

    You stating what’s professional or ethical is laughable with the character assassination you have done.

  11. Knox June 28, 2007 at 10:52 am #

    James – what you are saying is based off of what one person posted at the forum, not from what you know. You’ve seen what happens when you’re on the radar… just be careful 😐

    Bob- you are SOOOOO right. Rank is not an entitlement. FINALLY someone gets it. I owe you a Coors.

    k

  12. Character Assassination June 28, 2007 at 2:18 pm #

    I’ve been following this story in Real Estate Webmasters and the other places the real estate agents chose to post what they consider as fact. Sadly, Greg Boser was found to have visited some of the penalized sites, and Greg Boser chose to make a comment or two, and for this he is branded guilty of the most heinous of crimes. If the real estate agents spent more time cleaning their websites up, and less time blaming Google’s spam team and Greg Boser, then these real estate agents would probably be out of their penalties.

    Lastly, I am surprised the moderators and owner(s?) of Real Estate Webmasters have allowed some of the statements made about Greg Boser to stand. Some are a complete assassination of Greg Boser’s character. What happened to “innocent until proven guilty?”

  13. Knox June 28, 2007 at 2:32 pm #

    Their idea of “the squeaky wheel getting the grease” may be a bad idea. Wonder if, with Google “trying to set an example”, they decide to teach everyone that nagging, complaining and posting accusations and conspiracy theories everywhere they can is not the way to handle this (though I do that for some projects, it’s for a far different outcome). They think they have “nothing to lose” at this point, I’d say the future is a thing to consider. Personally I hope their sites make it back quickly, but that a lesson about responsibility is also learned. Their tactic of point counter-point arguments make them look worse than they really are.

    They have cleaned up their sites and most likely good people in the 3D world.

    I think they became comfortable while they were topping the SERPS. They were probably noticed by Boser becasue of their number of comments in that forum.

    When your livlihood is on the line, better to watch what COULD affect their site, not just look for the STATED google guidelines and pray for a loophole or miracle.

    Thanks for the comment, how ’bout you leave a name next time? 😉

  14. chatham NJ Real Estate June 28, 2007 at 3:41 pm #

    Hi Character,

    The fact that the comments have not been taken down likely have to do with wanting to promote a free flow of thoughts.

    Have you read WebGuerrilla’s blog, If anyone wanted to Assassinate a character, well you can read into it, he seems to be a character anyway.

    They guys are upset, Many of the Advance Access Websites that were punished are back to their former glory, someplace it was writen that the google spam unit was flooded with re-inclusion requests and had not gotten through even half of them, and that if you wanted your penalty removed faster you needed to put Advanced Access penalty in the subject line of your request for re-inclusion and your request would go to the front of the line. Smacks of favoritism to me if that is truly the case.

    As to “innocent until proven guilty” I thing that went out the window when Greg Boser went over to http://www.realestatewebmasters.com this week and commented on exactly what he did.

  15. Bob June 28, 2007 at 3:45 pm #

    The point about nothing to lose has been foolishly overlooked.

    What they don’t get is that insinuating that Boser has that much influence over Google’s spam team is also a slap at the very people they need to flip the switch back on.

    They should also look at a calender. Matt was on vacation when they got hit, and with his tenure, he isn’t likely the guy who goes thru the spam reports and decides who gets what.

  16. Bob June 28, 2007 at 3:50 pm #

    They are upset at the wrong people. They should be kicking themselves and REW for flaunting what they do to get links.

    The following pages were up as recently as May op this year:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060415001953/www.realestatewebmasters.com/internet-marketing/linking-program.php
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060427225513/www.realestatewebmasters.com/clientcode.php

    Boser wasnt the only one who filed spam reports.

  17. Knox June 28, 2007 at 3:52 pm #

    Bingo bob – 2 beers now.

    James says “The old saying of you get what you give will likely come back to haunt Greg Boser!”

    Believe me, there are probably more spam reports out there against him or his sites than you could imagine 😯 and Google most likely doesn’t want to look like they FAVOR him.

    I can’t find where he says anything like:

    “what Greg Boser has done is said he is going to hurt anyone who gets in the way of his clients”

    – just that he mentioned some examples from rew sites employing similar tactics as AA.

    Reminder – that doesn’t make him RESPONSIBLE though – a word some realtors would like to see redefined.

  18. Knox June 28, 2007 at 4:04 pm #

    Keep in mind that many REW members are not contracted to have REW build links. Many of the sites hit were from the site owners using REW’s resource to mine for links.

    I know of one of the loud voices on that forum that has told me that he did all the seo himself and credits rew for it.

    Rew did build a way for them to build links – they saw the change was needed. The timing and the unfortunate hiring of Web Guerilla by AA may have accelerated the need quicker than REW’s response time.

    I still plug REW (without any personal gain) – their sites are BEAUTIFUL and also capable of top placement – even without the site owners involvement 😐 When I gain a client I do 2 things, I buy them a certain book, and I send them to REW, even just to lurk.

    I’m personally tormenting myself with a project in mind and haven’t decided to hire them or struggle through it myself. I have 100% trust in them, but I, as can be easily shown here, am a stubborn ego.

    As for REW and their link program, it was definately working and definately beneficial to them. I don’t decry them making a buck – the realtors can understand legal documents so I assume they can read Google guidelines and determine if they want in on that program or not.

    I would bet that exchanging links with those directory members (I actually know this) would not bring the penalty. It’s when members “flew with the idea” and accumulated a gross amount of links.

    All my 2 pennies – I like your comments.

  19. Character Assassination June 28, 2007 at 4:55 pm #

    Knox writes: “Thanks for the comment, how ’bout you leave a name next time?”

    There’s no way. I am a honest responsible individual and promise not to take advantage of your blog space. You can see what happened to Greg Boser when he made one post regarding his seo practices. Heck, if my identity were known, it might be found out I spanked my kids 30 years ago. From that these folks would conclude I am a serial pedophile, mass murderer, or some other similarly ridiculous conclusion. 😕

    chatham NJ Real Estate writes: “The fact that the comments have not been taken down likely have to do with wanting to promote a free flow of thoughts.”

    Free flow of thoughts? Go to this thread: http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/thread16532.html then go to post #45. Is this the free flow of thoughts you are referring too? What a terrible thing to say about someone in the public arena. Then this ludicrous incitive comment is followed by ‘attaboys’ by moderators and penalized REW site owners.

    In the real world, these kinds of comments have to be backed up with facts, not suppositions. If the penalized sites had any decency within them, the penalized site owners would publicly apologize for a incredibly flawed public relations strategy.

    Lastly, if this is the kind of character that emanates from their handling an obviously difficult situation (one they brought upon themselves, I might add), you wonder what kind of spam methods they will consider doing next when the sites are no longer penalized.

    Unfortunately, this coup only forces Matt Cutts to keep these folks penalized, or risk the public persona that Google can be manipulated (isn’t this why they are penalized, ‘Google manipulation!) through public opinion.

  20. Knox June 28, 2007 at 6:01 pm #

    Character Assassination – sadly I do understand why your name is left as is. (i thought it was kinda clever)

  21. Knox June 28, 2007 at 6:12 pm #

    oh- EXCELLENT COMMENT by the way!

  22. chatham NJ Real Estate June 28, 2007 at 7:11 pm #

    Character Assassination

    I put it in the same sort of bad behavior as two neighbors who don’t get along very well. The one, a jealous sort, calls the city on the other anytime he sees the possibility of causing the other problems, Justified or not, eventually the city is likely to find something to fine the poor guy on. I thing Greg is that sort of guy from what I have read. I did not think that until he posted the other day on the REW board, then I was able to see him for what he really is. Or at least what he portrayed himself to be in that post, and on his own blog.

    Knock me for having a opinion if you want, but I have one, and I can certainly say I would not want you Character Assassination standing in judgment over anything of my doing, as I think you are like the hanging judges of the old west, every defendant is guilty, and they all hang.

  23. Bob June 28, 2007 at 10:39 pm #

    “I can certainly say I would not want you Character Assassination standing in judgment over anything of my doing, as I think you are like the hanging judges of the old west, every defendant is guilty, and they all hang.”

    pot > kettle > black

  24. Bob June 29, 2007 at 9:10 am #

    btw James, if you think filing a spam report against a few webmasters (who think that article exchange is the height of SEO) is sabotage or evil, then you need to wake up.

    If someone who knows what they are doing wanted to hurt you in a search engine, then it would not be a 30-60 day penalty. You wouldn’t be able to find your arse with both hands.

    http://www.forbes.com/2007/06/28/negative-search-google-tech-ebiz-cx_ag_0628seo.html

  25. Mike Dammann June 29, 2007 at 12:19 pm #

    “Greb”

    Spelling. :)

    “Was he throwing some people under the bus? IT DOESN’T MATTER.”

    It doesn’t?

    “You didn’t intend to hurt anyone.”

    Have you read his mind?

    “The real estate sites that are now under a penalty are NOT the result of you ratting anyone out, but the result of site owners trying to slide by on what worked for a while.”

    Siteowners have to learn that link exchange is not only an attempt to trick Google, but also a waste of time. There are many more effective ways to get your sites ranked. On the other hand, why should it be a problem if someone wants to waste time with HIS site?
    The issue here is that Google has to find better ways to discount paid links.
    That is Google’s challenge. What purpose is served when some websites get banned while others still enjoy the benefit?

    “Now, REW run by Morgan Carey is a GREAT place to learn about SEO and real estate websites. This incident MAY have given them a black eye ”

    Quite the opposite. The forum is a great place to learn and exchange ideas. The forum enables people to discuss ALL aspects of SEO and we all know that these days a lot of how well you do in the search engines has to do with how close you are to Matt.

    Mike

  26. Madison NJ Real Estate June 29, 2007 at 3:27 pm #

    Hi Knox,

    I love how these other posters on here keep their identity a secret. Makes it so easy for them to be above everyone else. I commented on Greg Boser convincing me of his character with his own words and for some reason I am the bad guy. I talk about Character Assassination the person posting here that is, who I would not be supprised if he were Greg Boser and it is Pot > Kettle > Black ok fine, what should we assume about the two of you who will not even identify yourselves????????

  27. Knox June 29, 2007 at 4:13 pm #

    I see the point counter-point sentence and arguments have spilled over to here.

    James – you know what? Writing under a speudoname is perfectly fine in blogs, at least according to US law (right now). He explained why he did that (and is a very valid reason) and your attempt to discredit them is that? C’mon – just say their wrong in your opinion.

    See- the “black helicopters” in my title fits, and I know i have a problem spelling Greg the right way – I can’t whistle well either.

    What I said about the REW forum is my opinion and CAN’T be wrong – so please stop qouting me if I say “I like vanilla” and demand some kind of proof.

  28. Mike Dammann June 29, 2007 at 4:30 pm #

    ¨I love how these other posters on here keep their identity a secret. ¨

    Which is why I will not even dignify that person´s post with a response.

  29. Chatham NJ Real Estate June 29, 2007 at 5:33 pm #

    I am not ripping on them (Character Assassination & Bob) for hiding their identities so much as the fact that they says whatever and come off all high and mighty. I have noticed that when people hid their identity they have a whole different story to tell then when their identity is known.

    So a few websites get taken down by google, and have not recovered from the penalty they were given, OK they probably deserved it, true, but so do thousands upon thousands of other websites, Real Estate and otherwise. I look at a 3 county area that people in my office and I cover and I could name 15 websites in 5 minutes which are full of reciprocal linking, realtor to realtor. They are dominating their respective searches. Where is Matt and the Spam team when it comes to devaluing those links as they should be according to the penalty Marc and Ryan got.

    I guess everyting comes do to, very few people like a Nark, and that is what Greg Boser is, In his own words even. He succeeds on other peoples misery. Boy I bet lots of people aspire to that, not.

  30. Character Assassination June 29, 2007 at 5:36 pm #

    New Jersey writes: “I love how these other posters on here keep their identity a secret. Makes it so easy for them to be above everyone else.”

    Uh, ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). And perhaps the only reason you are revealing your identity New Jersey is you think your are getting links to your site? Hence, the changing of your anchor text. You might consider reading up on nofollows.

    Mike (and, ‘starving for link love’ New Jersey): The point I am making is you’ve assassinated a person’s character based on a post and a few server log visits. Neither of you have justified this pitiful post: http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/thread16532.html post #45

    Oh, and by the way, there isn’t the ‘free flow of thought’ you guys purport. All one needs to do is frequent other real estate forums to discover the masses that have been banned from REW for their ‘free flow of thought.’ A very small majority of these should be banned from all forums, but for the most part, a large number of folks that stated the same things you guys have said about Greg Boser, but made the mistake of directing their comments towards REW. If you guys made the same claims you’ve made about Greg, but against a REW staffer, you’d be banned from REW as well.

  31. Mike Dammann June 30, 2007 at 12:10 am #

    My post #45 is the truth. Everyone reading here knows it. The only ones pityful are Greg and you, who is eiher Greg, a close friend of his or somebody hired by him.

  32. Knox June 30, 2007 at 12:21 am #

    Well I don’t think it’s him from the data I got, who knows – maybe a friend but there are definately 2 sides.

    One group wants to say Boser is responsible, the other says he’s the catalyst.

  33. Chatham NJ Real Estate June 30, 2007 at 8:39 am #

    Character Assassination, I know exactly what no follows are. From here on in as it relates to you and your ID I will not be responding to you or any of your comments, unless you reveal your ID. This Father Flanagan want to be attitude is exhausting to deal with.

  34. Bob June 30, 2007 at 1:12 pm #

    James,

    I wasn’t hiding my identity. I used my first name. Figure it out. It isn’t hard. Instead of insulting me, why don’t you prove me wrong what I have said anywhere online?

    Why can you voice an opinion without first hand knowledge of anything, but any time anyone says anything that you don’t like, they are “high and mighty”, arrogant or a hanging judge? It’s you and Mike that stooped to name calling on public forums. Slimey and vile are two insults that come to mind immediately.

    IMO, you don’t want facts. You just want your position to be justified. That is not an effective or viable approach to SEO, and it doesn’t work longterm.

    What if I told you that #1 Experts hired a very high profile SEO who’s horn is tooted louder than anyone in the industry to help them with a SE penalty with no success? The end result was spam reports where AA and P2A got reported and hit with penalties.

    Crying about penalties and spam reports is pointless. They happen if you screw up. The fact that mom and pops screw up because they don’t what they are doing is not a search engine’s fault. The fact that KW hires fools to give web advice is also not their fault.

    SEs don’t have to devulge anything concrete with regard to how they rank sites. If they did, it wouldn’t help mom and pop anyways, because those who know more would be that much more effective. Mom and pop wouldn’t get penalized, but it wouldn’t matter because they would never rank high enough for a SE to care.

    Bottom line, if you want their free traffic, figure it out or hire someone who can, but quit crying because you don’t think its fair. If you want fair, by ads. Fair isn’t an issue when it comes to organic results.

    Did you know that Yahoo has hand coded the first set of results in some serps. If you paid them, they would cloak your page for you so it would rank better. Is that fair?

    I used to build doorway pages for Excite and Alta Vista. Submit, then hit refresh and instant changes and better rankings until the other guy did the same thing. Then one day doorway pages were poison and people got wiped out. Fair? It doesn’t matter because fair isn’t part of ANY search engine’s equation.

    I am not trying to be arrogant, just let you know the reality. It is what it is.

    What isn’t fair is ripping people in a public forum like you have done when nothing happened to you and you don’t know all the facts or the players.

    If you want to continue to attack people, have the guts to pick up the phone and call them. If you can figure out basic SEO, then it’s easy to find phone numbers. I’ll even make it easy and call you and give you some background on the neighborhood in which you are playing. Maybe you would learn something. Then, and only then, can you claim that you are the one taking the high road with the right to libel others.

  35. Ryan Ward July 3, 2007 at 9:34 am #

    Wow! You talk about a conversation that has broken down!

    Since it’s my data – I think I should at least weigh in…

    My website was penalized. I looked for answers. From the information that I obtained this is the conclusion I have come to.

    First off, it’s my fault. I placed the links on my website. I removed the links, contacted the other site owners and corrected the issue.

    Then I wanted to know why I was hit while others weren’t.

    Got it?

    Good.

    Was it Greg’s Fault. No, it was my fault.

    Is it possible that Greg pointed out some sites and mine was one of them? From what he said, yes it is possible.

    Any question?

    I don’t think that this conversation should have degraded this way as it serves of no help to anyone.

    For those still reading this, I hope that you take away the idea that you should not attempt to gain rankings in Google by artificially increasing your incoming links.

    Anyone who would like to talk with me privately can email me at ryan@ryanwardrealestate.com or call me at 404.630.3187.

    I learned my lesson. I just hope Google let’s me and the others who have learned their lesson back in to the unpenalized positions (wherever those positions are).

  36. Chatham NJ Real Estate July 3, 2007 at 4:39 pm #

    Good move Ryan. You are a class act all the way!!

  37. Eugene OR Real Estate November 22, 2007 at 7:38 pm #

    I’m coming into this conversation very late. I don’t usually post on a thread this old but since I was one of the REW sites penalized I felt compelled to comment.

    Boser has been to my site one time that I am sure of and that was about 2 weeks before we were penalized. Yes, he was doing his job, so I won’t comment beyond stating that he was there.

    I think the real problem here lies with the way Google handed down these “hand picked” penalties. The keyword phrase I was trying for at the time was Florence Oregon Real Estate. One of the top 3 sites is AA that still has 50 state spam pages. It would be much easier to swallow these penalties if they were handed down equally.

    Someone commented that those penalized knew we were doing linking against Google guidelines. I can tell you that I did not. I am a Real Estate Broker, not an SEO expert. I had seen real estate websites doing this for years, including when I was with AA.

    As for the anonymous posts I think to make nasty comments and hide your identity is pretty low, regardless of the law. But as Bob from SD stated, it’s not too hard to figure out.

  38. Knox November 22, 2007 at 8:12 pm #

    I hope your site did get re-included, Dennis.

  39. Eugene OR Real Estate November 22, 2007 at 10:04 pm #

    Thanks Knox,

    I was lucky enough to be re-included on June 2nd, which was less than 30 days. Only Jake Marsh, there in your neck of the woods was re-included before me and I felt fortunate. Guys like Ryan and Marc endured 60+ days which is why they felt compelled to be much more vocal. After all there are still top ranked AA sites with 50 spam filled state pages.

  40. Knox November 22, 2007 at 10:10 pm #

    I think Jake had his link pages removed much earlier but I wouldn’t pretend to know the date.

    As far AA, who knows what will happen with them now. They nailed the REW clients, maybe that’s “case law” against the AA guys – we’ll have to wait and see. I wonder if anyone is still being vocal TO google about it.

    Glad you got reincluded though.

  41. Eugene OR Real Estate November 22, 2007 at 10:28 pm #

    I think you are right that Jake had already removed his state pages. So had I and Ryan. I’m not sure about the others.

    The day Boser visited my site I had state pages and I removed them a day or two later. Still got penalized nearly 2 weeks later.

    Anyway, this is all history now. I just think Google should figure out a way to make these penalties part of their algos rather than hand pick a few. Oh well, how many things in life are really fair? It just sucks that we still need to be so careful with our linking when some are out there continueing with their 50 state recip programs.

  42. Bob in San Diego November 22, 2007 at 10:30 pm #

    Ultimately we are all responsible for our own sites. You can’t control your competition. All you can do is figure out what it takes to beat them without running afoul of search engines.

  43. Jim In Madison December 5, 2007 at 5:37 pm #

    Hi Knox and Bob,

    I see bob is back, I am guessing that this is the same Bob from June and July.

  44. Knox December 6, 2007 at 3:07 am #

    Anyone ever think it had to do with propertytown.org….

  45. Jared Ritchey February 6, 2008 at 11:40 am #

    I love this site, I visit it no less than twice a week and again I discover a great article which for some bizzar reason escaped me last week.

    Not to add insult to injury but this issue mentioned all over the web regarding REW was no secret. This was foretold nearly a year ago and even I wrote about the importance of just doing articles on those you link out to as a safer way to link exchange. I’m not an SEO either.

    kudos on the site again;

    Jared Ritchey

  46. Larry Hotz February 9, 2008 at 1:03 pm #

    It appears REW sites have been hit a Google penalty now too. This time it was done “surgically” by hitting their “contextual linking” sites instead of the agents directly. So, agents will only suffer as their links from these juiced sites become worthless.

    INHO it makes more sense to penalize the author of the violating strategy rather than the clients who may not even understand the violation of search engine guidleines they are involved in.

  47. Knox February 9, 2008 at 1:23 pm #

    Hi Larry Hotz,

    INHO? REALLY?

    You came to this site searching for “PropertyTown Denver” – and you are making a comment about REW – while you are a PropertyTown user. I removed your link for you are obviously trying to build links while you blast another firm – you have your marching orders, I know, but your “dog in the fight” is quite apparent.

    Another comment here and it goes to Akismet and I rank for your name.

    Knox

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